My dinner with the guy that wrote Michael Jackson's "Thriller"

An account of my meeting with Rod Temperton in Paris and what I learned from him about songwriting.

Welcome to my Substack. I wish I could give a quick synopsis of what I plan to write about here, but the truth is that I’ve just had an itch to express myself in words beyond the world of music and songwriting. There are concepts or stories I wish to explore through lyrics, but the poetic form won’t do them justice, or perhaps my ability to distill them needs some fine-tuning. Until then, this seems like a good place to send my thoughts into the ether.

Sometime in the early '80s, my first musical memories were formed in our family house on Francisco Street, near Ghirardelli Square, in San Francisco. Little me, no older than 3 or 4, was absolutely obsessed with Michael Jackson’s song "Thriller," and in particular, the music video that accompanied it featuring Michael transforming into a dancing zombie. It was both terrifying and inspiring and I remember watching it daily, trying to emulate the iconic dance moves. My parents bought me a little red jacket for my home performances, and I would even watch the “making of the music video” in which director Jon Landis was always teasing Michael. To this day, when I eat popcorn at a movie theater, I think of MJ flashing his pearly white smile as he tosses kernels perfectly into his mouth, watching a horror movie with his girlfriend at the beginning of the video.

Like many musicians and songwriters of my generation (I’m 43 now), I was hugely influenced by "Thriller." It triggered something in my little mind that has stuck with me to this day: a desire to bring excitement to the world with this incredible mix of melody, rhythm, and lyrics. For me, music is a huge source of meaning; without it I would be lost and bored. I can honestly say that I knew what I wanted to do by the time I was 4 years old and made good on that promise. Years later, I had the good fortune of co-writing a global hit song called "Safe and Sound," which took me and my band Capital Cities to over 40 countries to perform live. I mention this not to boast, but to reinforce that my obsession with "Thriller" truly set me on an interesting life course, and ultimately, it came full circle.

It’s not lost on me that it’s awkward to convey that I was hugely influenced by the music of an accused pedophile. But alas, it is the truth, and this article is not about MJ but instead some of the genius behind his music. 

Most people know that Quincy Jones produced the "Thriller" album, even if they don’t know what a producer does. He’s a superstar and has a famous daughter, Rashida Jones. Quincy was the man that orchestrated the making of that entire album: he helped find the best songs, brought in the best musicians, hired the best engineers to record everything, arranged the strings and horns, and then directed everyone to get the best performances on tape. He and Michael were the creative directors of the album. What many don’t know is that there was an unsung hero of "Thriller" and also "Off The Wall," his previous album. His name is Rod Temperton, and he solely wrote many of Michael’s biggest hits.

Have you heard of these songs? "Rock With You," "Don’t Stop ‘Til You Get Enough," "Off The Wall," "Baby Be Mine," and of course, "Thriller." He also penned one of my all-time favorite tunes, "Gimme The Night," by George Benson. These are all timeless, smash hits.

For a long time, I also loved Rod’s songs but had no idea who he was. Then at some point, maybe around 12 years ago, I did some digging around and learned about his heavy involvement with all of these classic hits, including "Thriller." It was surprisingly hard to find info about him, and he was portrayed in what little could be found as a bit of a recluse. I was fascinated by this white, British man who wrote iconic songs for great black artists. Turns out he was also in the band Heatwave and wrote all their hits too ("Boogie Nights" being the most popular).

Cut to me in the midst of my success with Capital Cities, a whirlwind of travel and sleep deprivation, about to embark on a small tour of Europe. I called my manager, Daniel Weisman, and asked if he could find and reach out to Rod Temperton to see if he’d be interested in collaborating or meeting. It was a long shot, but when you have a song that is taking off across the globe, doors open more easily.

To my utter surprise, Dan got in touch with him and said that Rod wanted to come over to Paris from London to meet up. He couldn’t make it to the show, but would meet us before for dinner at The Hotel Costes with his wife Kathy. Holy shit! I was going to meet the creative mind behind some of the most transcendent pop music ever.

I was nervous as we met up in the lobby of the Hotel Costes, a dark, sexy hotel in the middle of Paris that you may know from their great compilation CDs that sold millions of copies. Our trumpeter at the time, Spencer Ludwig, joined me on this adventure; he was also heavily influenced by MJ. Rod was very tall, super cordial and had a low, languid voice and quintessential British accent that seemed made for storytelling. We first went to his room for a drink and chat and then had dinner at the hotel restaurant. I had a million questions for him, as I wanted to learn everything I could about what went into making this timeless music.

Here are a few memories of things he told me that night:

• He almost passed on working on Michael’s "Off The Wall" album when Quincy called him to write some tunes, as he was in the midst of recording a new Heatwave album. Eventually, he agreed to take a crack at it and ended up writing "Rock With You" and "Off The Wall" within a week. Not a bad week. 

• I asked him who came up with the iconic drum fill intro to "Rock With You." He did.

• He was very humble and described himself as not being the type of musician, like Elton John, who could sit down and play piano and sing his songs perfectly. In fact, there is a video on YouTube of Rod singing an early demo of "Rock With You" and he is definitely not a good singer. He knew this, but could somehow convey these amazing melodies in crude form knowing they would come alive with the right artist.

• He tried to convey to me in a very sweet way that great music is not as mysterious as we might think. It’s possible to make it; you just need to really tap into your imagination and get out of your own way. You can hear this idea in his "Rock With You" demo where he can’t sing well, but just goes for it and writes one of the best songs of all time. He humanized these great works for me, which I appreciated.

Writing these memories of what he told me that night makes me think of a conversation I had years later with a great songwriter that worked with Pharrell Williams on an album. He said that what made Pharrell so unique is that he was not self-conscious at all in their songwriting sessions, throwing out melodic and lyrical ideas at an incredible rate. In other words, he got out of his own way and allowed creativity to flow out of him without worrying about how he sounded as a singer or if the ideas were good. It’s as if he was playing a numbers game with music; eventually, a unique and powerful melodic idea would emerge. For context, most songwriters are not this liberated in sessions with others, especially strangers; we brood in a corner waiting for our internal critic to approve of an idea before sharing it with the group. 

The common thread between Rod and Pharrell seems to be that they don’t have an ego when writing music. They allow ideas to flow without censorship and you can hear this in the way their melodies take you on a journey. It’s as if they enter a childlike state where music has no rules and the universe rewards you with melodic nuggets of gold. Great writing is not a function of sitting down and using theory to compose a perfect piece. I’ve seen this in my own career as my most successful songs were written quickly and without thinking too much. Laboring over a piece just sucks the life out of it sometimes.

We finished our dinner of burgers and skinny french fries and Rod and I resolved to stay in touch via email in the hopes of maybe one day working together at his countryside studio, but at the very least for me to send him new music for feedback, which I did. 

In one email exchange, I sent him the lead single from Capital Cities’ second album Solarize, a song called "Vowels." This was admittedly not our greatest work, and his feedback has stuck with me to this day. Here is what he wrote:

“Hi Ryan, great to hear from you and thank you for letting me hear your new song. I think the groove is great, especially the ear candy color on the intro. The chorus opens up nicely but perhaps could be a bit stronger (maybe the addition of another vocal counter line). In general, I think this song is well on the way. The only other comment I can make is about the lyrics. I know it is part of the group's styling, but sometimes I think you could be a bit more emotional in the lyrics or it all starts to sound very cold and calculated. Just a thought! Anyway buddy, the very best of luck with it all and will look forward to hearing the finished product. All the best. Rod T.”

He was totally right about the lyrics, and nowadays when I write songs for Capital Cities or my new group Paco Versailles, I try not to be overly calculated in my writing. If the words feel good and sing well, then they are probably right. Overly clever lyrics can actually hurt a song and making logical sense is optional. I think it’s good to leave some of the story to the imagination of the listener and to remember that most people latch onto individual lines of a song, not the whole thing. Make those lines unique and phonetically fun to sing. 

After some email exchanges, there was a period in late 2015 where I did have plans to go out and visit Rod for a few days at his studio to work on music. I’m embarrassed to say that I ended up not going, which is one of the greatest regrets of my life. I made up some lame excuses as to why it was too much for me to get out to the UK, but the reality is that I was not very spontaneous at that time and was probably afraid of working with him. I think I felt unworthy of collaborating with a writer of his caliber. Who knows what was going through my mind. I missed a great opportunity. 

The following year, Rod passed away from cancer, which was a real loss to the music world. He was an absolute genius and made the world a much richer place with his incredible songs, which I study to this day. 

Although I regret not going to his studio to work, meeting and corresponding with Rod was enough. It was a confirmation that my life had a distinct trajectory that started a long time ago and continues to unfold to this day. Music holds a special place in the fabric of a society and I’m just happy to contribute a small piece to the bigger picture. 

Ryan